SPN 2x05 Simon Said

[penfold_x]

Yes, many interesting things happened tonight. And the boys were their usual pretty selves. But I can't stop thinking about one aspect of this episode, and herein lies the rant:

Andy's a nice guy. We're supposed to doubt it at first, but come to believe it at the end. After all, he does save his not quite girlfriend and our lovely Dean from being killed by Anson. He's just a sad, pot-smoking screw-up, but a good guy at heart. Andy may have mind control powers, and he did (temporarily) boost the Impala, but we're supposed to see that, because he's smart and he generally only steals what he needs, he's not a bad guy. Not like Anson, who we see at the end on the verge of forcing the girl to disrobe (presumably to rape her) then force her off the bridge.

And yet, at the front of the episode, when we're being introduced to Andy, we see him leave a pretty blonde's apartment, where she is leaning out the window in her negligee. It's pretty clear we're supposed to presume that Andy has been there and done that, and this is one of a line of things that Andy has gotten by using his mind control powers. It's supposed to be amusing, like the guy having his coffee stolen. But is there any difference between what Andy's done and putting a roofie in a drink? Andy completely removed that woman's capacity to consent, and if she retains her memory (as we see others do) and she's able to remember that she didn't want to do what was asked (as we saw in Dean's reaction to losing the Impala), then she's going to remember this violation and feel just like any other rape victim.

And the boys see this, do the math in their heads, and yet don't seem to be even vaguely upset or disgusted. Their (admittedly brief) reaction is "Him? With Her? Must be mind control." At best indifference and at worst mild amusement.

I love you, Kripke. But right now, I don't like you very much.

Comments

[obelix]

I can see where you got that impression but I must admit I didn't see the scene with the blonde in the window the same way. I didn't see coercion, I saw 2 people who probably partied the night before and had a one night stand and she was pretty happy with him. I didn't immediately think mind control and the reaction from the boys was what I would expect from guys who can't believe a nerd like Andy could get a girl like that so they made a joke (bad taste in joke but joke). Same reaction that Dean had about Jessica when he first met her.

[penfold-x.livejournal.com]

Another friend of mine with whom I discussed this had the same thought that you did: either he got her something and she was very grateful, or they had spent the night smoking pot together, or something along those lines. I hope that it never occured to the people writing and producing this show that the scene could be interpreted as Andy using his mind control to get what he wants, even when that includes sexual favors. I've rewatched the scene, and it still perceive that to be the message. It strongly reminds me of a similar scene from Revenge of the Nerds that I really, really hate.

[obelix]

It didn't feel like that was the message to me or my Hubby but again I can see where you could see it that way. I think this is a scene that can be interpreted a multitude of ways. I do feel that since they had Andy take such a strong stance at the end that it didn't occur to them that it could be interpreted that way.

Never saw Revenge of the Nerds or any of the Nerds movies so wouldn't be able to comment on them ;-)

[sargraf.livejournal.com]

Their (admittedly brief) reaction is "Him? With Her? Must be mind control." At best indifference and at worst mild amusement.

In the sides, it was worse. (Do you read episode sides?) Dean's reaction as written is "somewhere between ick and awe" in response to a following scene of Andy stopping a different gorgeous woman and leading her inside her apartment. Which is taking the horndog!Dean and the bad boy!Dean a few steps over a line that he has never shown any inclination of crossing before now. It's not only morally questionable, it's horribly lazy characterization.

[penfold-x.livejournal.com]

I only occasionally read sides, and I didn't see them for this episode. *sigh* This scenario is precisely the impression I got from the truncated scene. Well, there goes my last rationalization; I had deeply hoped that Edlund had written the scene intending a different meaning without realizing the scene was open to this interpretation.

Dean's reaction as written is "somewhere between ick and awe" in response to a following scene of Andy stopping a different gorgeous woman and leading her inside her apartment. Which is taking the horndog!Dean and the bad boy!Dean a few steps over a line that he has never shown any inclination of crossing before now. It's not only morally questionable, it's horribly lazy characterization.

While I despise propetuating a rape myth, this could have been fixed through the writer's reaction for Dean and Sam. I didn't see anything in Dean's character up to now that indicated someone with such a wide protective streak would find middle ground between ick and awe here. Dean enjoys a good time with a party girl; he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would get off on removing his partner's power to consent or using force to overpower an unwilling partner. His general protectiveness and his dealings with Sam argue against this, IMO. Dean wants people to want to be with him, but I don't see any indication that he'd settle for or be comfortable with forcible company.