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Where to begin?!

Snape is *not* a triple agent. First, for that to be true, Dumbledore needs to be a moron. And then there's the entire scene outside Hagrid's hut - the deflecting of curses, the extreme reaction to being called a coward, and "Blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed." Snape just up and offered Harry exactly what he needed to know. Oh, Snape's still a petty bastard who carries around too much anger over his teen years, but he's paid for it, and will continue to do so. He paid most monumentally at 595. As [livejournal.com profile] garlandgraves theorizes, that gaze that Snape gave Dumbledore in the tower was almost certainly a legilimency exchange, and the thing that Hagrid overheard Snape and Dumbledore arguing about was probably related to an agreement about what to do if this type of situation arose.

So much new Snape canon. The revelation about the prophesy was extremely interesting: this makes Snape a much worse fellow than some wish to believe. It also makes me even more curious about what on earth it was that Snape offered to prove to Dumbledore his sincerity. Will the portrait reveal this? Unfortunately, I think what Dumbledore began to say to Harry, about Snape not knowing whom the prophecy would affect, points strongly to the LOLLIPOPS theory, which I really hate. But it would fit into the power of love theme (which I also dislike, to a certain degree, because of the tendency towards triteness that it can breed; if it actually caused the reader to think about character and nobility, that might be one thing, but here it will undoubtedly stop with a superficial notion of romance).

Slughorn: I was really starting to like him until he became a plot device. The tricking of Dumbledore, the indulgence in (what can be harmless and sometimes helpful) Slytherin personality traits such as networking and a love of the finer things in life. He had real potential as a good guy Slytherin, something the books could use, since now it seems virtually every Slytherin shares Voldemort's theories on the importance of blood purity. One of the most starkly "English" qualities of the books is JKR's idea that ambition is a negative trait. She never shows it without twisting it to a bad end (Voldemort, Percy, Slughorn's unnecessarily exclusive form of networking; Slughorn's grasping and pompousness). If an American wrote the books, you could bet the defining qualities of the "bad" House would not include ambition (though it certainly would include blood prejudice, i.e. inequality).

BTW, was it just me, or did the whole idea of an HBP seem like it went nowhere? Really, what role did the book play in anything? Harry learned a series of nasty jinxes, and got better at potions. And oh yeah saved Ron from death. But... but where did this go? It was the TITLE. But it wasn't particularly important. Or maybe it will be in the next book?

Shipping: I'm okay with R/Hr provided it's not the focus of the next book (c'mon, she's been beating us over the head with this for years). And people who think Ron and Hermione have been replaced with pod people because they used their classmates to make each other jealous? Hello, that's just what Hermione was doing with Krum. They are so not above that. Really, this seemed likely to be the way it had to be, IMO. They both have a lot of pride, and needed the jealousy to get over it.

I'm okay with H/G, but am really quite happy it looks like it won't be part of book seven to any great degree. But I didn't like how it was done. The big kiss scene at the quiddich party? The goodbye scene? So cheese you could break out the nachos and have a party. The kiss scene was especially egregious and, IMO, not really realistic.

I'm even okay with Tonks/Remus, but it just seems so out of left field. Without a lot of screen time being put to the ship, it seems tacked on and trite. I'm also disappointed that all we get to see is her being mopey about Remus. She has so much more personality than that, and since Sirius didn't get much attention in this book, I would have really loved a rich h/c scene between Tonks and Harry regarding Sirius. Or between Remus and Harry. During Christmas, I wanted Harry to hug Remus so badly. *sigh* That scene needs a definite re-write.

I'm just not into Fleur/Bill. She irritates me to no end.

[livejournal.com profile] graculus inadvertently made me realize there's an upside to all the shipping: the slash world is now in chaos. Ah, the silver lining. (Don't act so disappointed. I'm a Slytherin, what did you think I'd do? Feel their pain?)

Wonderfulness:

* Neville, woobie extraordinare. His wand is cherry/unicorn; oh, the innocence! His painful relationship with Gran. He's there at the battle. Oh, the missing scenes!

* Luna. I continue to [heart] her and her awkward insights. She needs to be featured more in canon. Hopefully, both she and Neville will get a role in Seven.

* Filling in the gaps on Blaise Zabini.

* Dumbledore confiding in Harry, at long last. Well, everything about Dumbledore, really. Take that, writers of Evil!Dumbledore.

* Molly & Arthur's relationship. Mollywobbles! Arthur taking Harry seriously.

Disappointments:

* Snape is the DADA teacher, but we hardly get any scenes! Such lost opportunities.

* Draco is bound to be coming over to the good. *sigh*

* Remus hardly appearing in the book. I can't wait for the werewolf spy fanfic.

* Percy: oh, you know you love your family. Come home already.

Date: 2005-07-17 09:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] graculus.livejournal.com
*laughs* If you think little things like death, murder and canon sexuality will stop slashers, you've got another think coming.

Date: 2005-07-17 05:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
But it is nice to hear the wailing and the gnashing of teeth. Gives me a warm glow inside, like puppies and sunshine.

Date: 2005-07-17 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] graculus.livejournal.com
On my friends list, most of the people have just gone 'nope, not buying it' and that was pretty much it. But the Snape fans don't tend to be an excitable bunch and I think most of us are just anticipating the angsty post-book 7 Snape/Harry angst fest. :)

Date: 2005-07-17 05:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
And what of the Sirius/Remus people, whom I find accutly annoying. Please tell me they're somewhere crying and trembling. Oh, please!

Date: 2005-07-17 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] graculus.livejournal.com
You do know Tonks can change her entire appearance, right? I'm sure she's anatomically correct as well... ;)

Date: 2005-07-17 05:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
Wow, thats... particularly nausiating (not least for what it says about Remus).

I think I need to go scrub my brain with a toothbrush...

Date: 2005-07-17 05:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] graculus.livejournal.com
Well, if one half of their pairing dying didn't stop them, I'd be surprised if the other half getting paired off with A Girl will...

*refrains from the obvious doggy style joke*

Date: 2005-07-17 09:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] graculus.livejournal.com
And btw, I was referring to JKR having a checklist so she could make sure she upset as many segments of the fandom as possible: I'm sure the Harry/Hermione and Harry/Ginny shippers aren't all that pleased with her either at the moment...

Date: 2005-07-17 01:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] easter.livejournal.com
I'm sure the Harry/Hermione...shippers aren't all that pleased with her either at the moment...l

I know.

Isn't it GREAT?

Date: 2005-07-17 05:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
It was this line that set me off:

I wonder if JKR decided it would be a good time to hit as many characters as possible with the heterosexuality stick in order to entertain herself?

Of course, there were a lot of things she set fire to (H/Hr, Harry/Luna, Tonks/Anyone Else, Sirius being only 'mostly dead', Snape Manor, Evil!Dumbledore, Amelia Bones as MoM, all those pre-6th year fics where Ginny hangs out with the Trio, Snape: Wolfsbane Inventor, etc), but this part was really the sweetest (as I had nothing invested of course).

The only thing I did buy into the 'Snape as degraded pureblood' as it gave Snape excellent motivation to hate those non-purebloods that climbed over his family in wealth, power and status, but it's not too big a deal.

Date: 2005-07-17 05:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] graculus.livejournal.com
I'm sticking to my theory that she just had a list and had spent some time working out how to stymie the biggest number of people going in the shortest space of time.

And considering that there are people freaking out about the fact that Blaise Zabini is black, I think she's managed admirably.

Date: 2005-07-17 05:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
WHAT?

Oh, puh-leeze.

I enjoyed the fact that she filled in a lot of holes here, particularly Blaise, former Slytherin Cypher. I picture him as a tall, Tiger Woodish, exotic beauty. Too bad she had to make him stuck on blood purity, though. Aren't there any current Slytherins who aren't? And where did Millicent disappear to?

Date: 2005-07-17 01:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] easter.livejournal.com
I felt sorry for Fleur, and sorry for how the Weasleys, as the in-laws, treated her. I guess it's because that touches an especially raw spot with me, but I really expected more of them.

Date: 2005-07-17 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
I can see why, but, to me, Fleur's awful personality was a trump card. She's really irritating, and quite insensitive (when dealing with people other than Bill).

From D_S

Date: 2005-07-18 10:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iczer6.livejournal.com
I'll admit that Fleur was downright obnoxious but I don't think the Weasely's were much better.

I mean they never attempted to *talk* to Fleur about he behavior, instead they made snide comments behind her back and were passive-aggressive about the whole thing.

Plus the 'throwing Tonks at Bill' thing was just tactless to the extreme, plus it was horribly thoughtless of Molly. Did she even bother to find out if Tonks was interested in Bill?

Re: From D_S

Date: 2005-07-19 12:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
You'rr right; they reacted to Fleur in a very passive/aggressive way that did nothing to improve their relationship with her, and the foisting of (an obviously uninterested, hurting) Tonks on Bill was downright inconsiderate.

But I sympathize with anyone that has to share housespace with a Veela. It's like your roommate being a supermodel. Just irritating. And Fleur mocking Molly's music was not a class act.

Re: From D_S

Date: 2005-07-19 12:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] easter.livejournal.com
Yes, but I think at that point (when she made fun of the music) she was pushed to her limits. I mean, Fluer's neither deaf nor stupid; I'm sure she picked up on the little slights. Ginny, etc. are kids, and kids make fun of each other, but I expected better from Molly - she should have discouraged their behavior!

Date: 2005-07-19 12:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] avari-elf.livejournal.com
Very interesting post, and I hope you're right about Snape, [livejournal.com profile] penfold_x.

I was really disappointed with the way Molly and Ginny acted towards Fleur. Well, more by Ginny than Molly, because I know Molly is something of a cow at times and I expected such a behavior from her.

Treating your son's fiancée like that (who is a guest, who is the one moving to the UK and adapting herself to a foreign country, who has never shown anything but love for Bill) shows you were raised, at best, by a herd of trolls.

Also, as a friend wondered in my LJ, and she's French like me: "I am possibly way off on this but it could be one of those "You know what French women are famous for" episodes. Have I ever mentioned how much I hate people who say that?"

Then again, my paternal grandmother was pretty horrid to my mother, so I feel for Fleur and it's a sore sunject for me. My mother after a while simply decided to just ignore the existence of her mother-in-law and make no effort, and I think this may explain Fleur's focus on Bill. After all, he's the one she's marrying, she doesn't have to like his family.

Date: 2005-07-17 03:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] author-by-night.livejournal.com
I think HBP's purpose was to set the stage more than anything.

And Fleur... in fairness, Ginny and Hermione had seen Fleur humiliate Ron, and Fleur *does* come across as a tad snobby. However, if they still hate her after how she defended her relationship with Bill... we know Molly doesn't hate her.

Date: 2005-07-17 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
No, I would guess everyone will have to be alright with her (tolerant, at least) given that she's sticking by Bill.

Date: 2005-07-17 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eldritchhobbit.livejournal.com
Snape is *not* a triple agent. First, for that to be true, Dumbledore needs to be a moron. And then there's the entire scene outside Hagrid's hut - the deflecting of curses, the extreme reaction to being called a coward, and "Blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed." Snape just up and offered Harry exactly what he needed to know. Oh, Snape's still a petty bastard who carries around too much anger over his teen years, but he's paid for it, and will continue to do so. He paid most monumentally at 595.

Well said indeed! *applause*

Date: 2005-07-17 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
*courtesies*

Thank you!

BTW, could your icon be any more apropos?

Date: 2005-07-17 06:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eldritchhobbit.livejournal.com
Thanks! Your icon is brilliant. We are on the same page in terms of our interpretation. Geez, I only slept two hours, and yet my first thought is "HOW long until Book Seven?" LOL.

Date: 2005-07-17 07:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
It hurts that I *know* we'll have to wait two or three years.

But, there are movies coming to enjoy. I hear 5 is in pre-production, and if 4 does well, I think we can expect the whole series, eventually.

Date: 2005-07-17 10:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eldritchhobbit.livejournal.com
Yes, exactly! Good point about the movies, though... It will be hard to top the Azkaban film for me, but I'm looking forward to Goblet anyway! :)

Date: 2005-07-17 07:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
BTW, can I gak your icon? I find I am in love.

Date: 2005-07-17 10:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eldritchhobbit.livejournal.com
LOL! Thanks! It was made for me by [livejournal.com profile] fortunateizzi, who was kind enough to customize a textless base and add the Tori Amos lyrics I requested. If it's okay with [livejournal.com profile] fortunateizzi, it's certainly okay by me! We especially need Snape!love now, I think.

I'm waiting for FREE STAN SHUNPIKE! icons to start showing up. :)

Date: 2005-07-17 10:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
Argh! I just finished making some icons. I wish I'd thought of that one!

Date: 2005-07-18 06:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jan-aq.livejournal.com
Great notes. :) I thought much the same. And awesome icon.

As for the title, well I don't think that anything else really large and uncompassing happened throughout the book (maybe Dumbledore's lessons but "Harry Potter and Dumbledore's Lessons" probably wouldn't be a good name). XD I thought that the title tied in very well with the book, first the potions book that kept popping up, saved Ron's life, and also the tie in at the end when Snape claimed himself the Half-Blood Price and just everything about Snape. I think Snape stole the show and he deserved the title. :) Plus it kept us all guessing.

Date: 2005-07-19 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
Harry Potter and the Horcrux? Heh, well, that might be the title of seven.

Snape totally stole the show (such a drama queen). But the thought of what he must be going through... and that he'll be utterly alone in this, because he's necessarily separated from the rest of the Order (the closest thing he has to friends) and will be second-most hated man in wizarding Britian (though I'm sure he was on the list somewhere up to now)... it's going to take a lot of strength to get through all of that.

Even though I completely expected Dumbledore to die, I didn't expect (at the beginning) that it would be at Snape's hand. I read [livejournal.com profile] aspenlight's latest chapter before I went to bed, to cheer myself a bit.

Date: 2005-07-19 02:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jan-aq.livejournal.com
As much as I think Snape is still good, that he was following orders, and I really, really believe that, I think that you should also be prepared for JKR to actually make him evil. :\ Otherwise if she does, we'll all be totally shocked and probably WILL burn the books. XD

Date: 2005-07-18 10:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alchemi.livejournal.com
Randomly ended up here. Thought I'd offer a theory. I think Snape really did love Lilly. Voldemort always underestimates love. Snape is bitter that his own actions doomed the person he loved most. He's also resentful of Harry for her sacrifice (i.e. him acting like a prick to Harry has more to due with his mother then his father). That's why he's willing to go to such lengths and why Voldemort would underestimate him again and again.

Date: 2005-07-19 12:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penfold-x.livejournal.com
Yes, I'm afraid that's the LOLIPOPS theory (Love Of Lily Is Poluting Our Poor Severus), or a varient of it. I was really hoping that Snape came over because he had a moral revelation, not just because his actions finally wound up rebounding on himself. It's a very selfish motive, when it comes down to it.

From daily_snitch

Date: 2005-07-19 01:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evil-laugher.livejournal.com
I think the title is meant to emphasize the role of Snape all throughout the book, from the second chapter to the end, and also, though he's not the "Prince", to emphasize the story of Voldemort, that other half-blood. Voldemort's life and Snape's actions in the background were a running theme.

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